Leadership and fatherhood are two different things, but they may not be as far off as they seem. In this episode, Alicia Couri is joined by special guest Ric Hellmann, who shares how leadership principles such as creating a vision, developing an action plan, leading by example, and more can actually be applied to the growth of becoming a better, healthier, and wiser father for your kids! Full of gold nuggets from Ric’s expertise and personal experiences, tune in now to this episode and learn how with great leadership comes great fatherhood opportunities.
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Translating Leadership Principles For Fatherhood
We have Ric Hellmann, Founder of Purpose Coaching. Ric is a passionate leadership coach focused on transforming leaders with purpose. His approach will breathe life into those struggling to find intentional purpose, fulfillment, and engagement. Supported by his several years in the United States Navy, his vast experience has equipped him with a plethora of practical solutions to leadership’s toughest quandaries. Ric holds the certified professional proactive coach from the Proactive Training Institute and is certified by the International Coaching Federation as an Associated Certified Coach. You can reach out to them at www.PurposeCoachingLLC.com. Welcome to the show, Ric.
Thank you so much.
Prior to jumping on this show, we had a conversation about leadership and confidence in leadership. What ignited my excitement for this conversation is how you’re taking your background in leadership in the military and you’re focusing it on men and being dads. How do you take this leadership and transition it to home life? Tell me why that was important for you to focus on as a coach.
I saw it many times in my experience in the military in the Navy that children and divorces and dysfunction and all these things, “The Navy did this to me. The Marine Corps did this to me. They’re the reason why we’re getting divorced. I’m not seeing my kids.” That was a precursor to a much bigger issue of focusing on the same things that are applicable at work or other areas of these leadership familiarities that we have. Why not do that at home and be the most valuable player in your home when we do so easily at work? That’s what started it.
You saw this happening but was there anything from a personal side for you that you thought, “I’m going to start doing this myself. That way I am proof that this works?”
I got married later in life. I had the job of an E-9, but the family of an E-1. They weren’t matching, the number of hours to work, commuting. I left the Navy a little bit earlier. I noticed when I left and started civilian life that I was still in the same up-tempo with the same cadence. My kids were getting older. Going back to why Purpose Coaching was created, like, “What am I doing? Why am I doing this?”
I was missing out on summers. I only get eighteen summers with my kids. As a couple of years went by, I thought, “I’m going to peel back and focus on what was important to me, my purpose.” I had just focused on work purpose before that. Now I was a dad purpose, a husband purpose, professional purpose as well. For me personally, that was what I was forgetting about. As they were getting older, it became more and more apparent how important that was to me.
It’s huge when you break it down like that. It hit me when you said, “I only have eighteen summers with them.” When you take stock of, you think, “I have them for eighteen years,” but when you break it into, “We only have eighteen first days of school.” It’s that first after summer. It puts things into a completely different perspective. That’s huge.
There’s this book, The Alter Ego Effect, by Todd Herman. He talked about a client he had that was crushing it at work. He’s like, “I don’t need you to help me get better at work. I need you to help me get better at home. I need an alter ego for when I came home that I wasn’t exhausted and I wasn’t this sit on the couch dad.” He was like, “Not everybody wants to crush it at work. Some people are already doing that at work.” They don’t want coaching to crush it at work because they’re already doing that, but they’d never considered, “How about getting some coaching for the rest of my life?”
There was a phenomenal leader I had in the Navy. As he went up through the ranks, he probably sacrificed his family to get this professional career. We have retirements in the Navy. Your family sits in that front row. He told me, “Ric, when you retire, you better make sure that front row was filled. In 2 or 3 years from now, when you ask a junior sailor about so and so, I’m gone and replaced, but that family.” The transition we can have in that to say, “I crushed at that work, but then all these people are gone.” They don’t remember you. Your kids and spouse will.
They’re the frontline. It happens with professional athletes, too. They’re gone for so long in that world. They’re tunnel vision, focused on winning that championship. Like military, unless you go into a full career in the military, athletes by their mid-30s, sometimes early 30s, that career is over. What are you doing with the rest of your life? What are you doing with your family? This work that you’re doing is vital. If someone’s reading and thinking, “It’s not so bad,” what are some of the mindset things or the things that they should now become aware of that they’re not thinking of right now as warning signs or signals that things could start going off the rails for you?
First of all, I would preface that work-life balance is different from everyone’s perspective. 30 hours might be too much for me and 50 might be for someone else. The signs that I would ask someone to look for these high-performing dads, let’s say, “Do you know your child’s teacher? Who are their friends? What’s their favorite show they watch before school? What do they do?” Each individual parent or high-performing dad asks those questions. “Does your spouse do all the lunch packing? How involved are you?” Almost get a 360 done. Get that feedback and that awareness going.
One particular example, we had a Friday folder. Our kids would come home every week with a Friday folder. I noticed again that I don’t even know what’s in this Friday folder. I’m not taking an active role. I love that you said that we had to look at what’s important, the trajectory and the investment, and being a transformational dad and not just transactional, “How was your day?” thing. That was a good wake-up sign. It’s the little things.
Those are huge things. This entire interview’s giving me goosebumps. It’s true. We can get into the minutia, the phone calls, the emails, and all this stuff. You wake up in the morning, you check your phone, and you’re completely unaware that these other people live in the house with you. They have lives, too. They have stuff. Are you plugged in and paying attention to the little things? A lot of people honestly talk about whether you’re building a business or you’re building a career. You might miss 1 birthday or 2. You might miss 1 game or 2.
We can make it up, but it’s not so much missing the games or the birthdays that the kid remembers as, “My 3rd birthday, he wasn’t there. My 10th birthday, he wasn’t there.” They could remember that, but what they will remember more than that, even if you miss a couple of birthdays, is that you were present every day.
It’s like, “My dad was present every day. My mom was present every day because she asked me not just about what happened today in school while she was emailing somebody else, but she knew my friends’ names. She knew what show I liked.” Those are the things that sit and resonate with kids that even if you end up through a divorce, your kids will still have a great relationship with you.
I would add to that too, “Why did my dad miss my third birthday? Was he drunk in a bar? Was he out golfing? Was he being deployed?” On the other side of the coin, too, what message am I sending to my children that dad will be at every single thing? The world doesn’t revolve around them, either. For me, my priorities are God, my wife, my kids, then work.
There are busier seasons and it may look lopsided, but if I look at a season of my life and I can say, “Are those priorities tracking? I want my children to know that sometimes dad can’t make it every single day.” We don’t talk about that because in order to be this parent, you have to be at every game and every practice. I don’t subscribe to that.
I agree with you 100%. You can’t live life productively by doing that at all. You’re going to burn yourself out trying.
I set the example for my kids by going, “This is what life is like. It’s all about me. Why aren’t you here? How come you should be at everything?” Getting further down off the topic a little bit, but disappointment. Life’s going to disappoint you, cheat on you, break up with you, or you don’t get the star. That’s life. Everything can happen. There’s a good balance. It’s not the helicopter parents that are 24/7, but also, too, you should know who lives in your house by their first name.
Your kids are younger, which is great that you had that self-awareness and started to plug in at that time. What if someone has older children and they’re now getting the message like, “I’ve been that dad that’s not been engaged. How can I reengage that?”
First of all, grace. It’s not too late. It may be easier to say this, but give yourself some grace. It is what it is. Going forward, name it with the child or children and name what happened. “Daddy was more focused on this. I didn’t realize that.” Not making excuses, but naming and explaining it. Asking some important questions, “Son, what would the best relationship look like going forward with you?”
Instead of going in there in this consultant mind, which a lot of us are, “Let’s fix it. I know what to do.” Remain curious, like, “Savannah, daddy wasn’t there a lot. I know that. I recognize that now. What I would like to do going forward is X, Y, and Z. What would you like?” Empowering these teenagers and pre-adults, and not just assuming that I know how to fix it and here’s what we’re going to do, collaborating with that child that maybe you haven’t had the relationship that both of you have wanted. Be real with it.
I do it with the boys and me and my daughter’s getting old enough now too, to get on one knee and say, “Daddy messed up. Will you forgive me?” Sometimes they say no. We got rules in the house. You can’t talk how you want to talk and do that, but you certainly don’t have to forgive me. Anyway, empowering that child to be part of the process going forward to mend those bridges is powerful.
I had a situation with my oldest. In her teenage years, she was having some difficult challenges. I’m the fix-it parent. I want to help and I want to fix it. I came in there with all my suggestions, all my things to fix the situation. It wasn’t until a few years later that she and I did a show together to talk about difficulties between mothers and daughters and challenges. We had major challenges between the two of us. We knew the love was there. We just came at things from a completely different perspective. She shared with me, “You wanted to fix it. You wanting to fix it embarrassed me because it made it worse.” That was never my intention.
As parents, we do have this desire to go fix everything for our children. She’s a brilliant child, but she was having challenges. She wasn’t going to school. She dropped out of school because she started having anxiety. I never had anxiety, so I didn’t understand what she was going through. I tried to find people. I hooked up with youth pastors. I hooked her up with her favorite teacher in elementary school. I was like, “Take her out to lunch. Talk to her. Find out.”
I don’t have the ego to think that it has to be me, but I was putting her with people that I thought respected and she loved and respected and that knew loved her that she would open up to them. Instead, it backfired. She was like, “These are people who saw me as one way, and now you’re showing them that I’m this way. It’s disappointing.” She felt worse because now, these people who thought that she was such a great kid are seeing all her flaws. It made her feel more vulnerable. I take that us wanting to fix the relationship instead of allowing them to tell us what they need.
It’s so true in all my experiences. They’re younger. We don’t want our children to experience pain. We don’t want them to be crying in the morning. I remember Jacob, my oldest, was learning how to tie shoes. I had to sit on my hands while he struggled with his shoes and gets frustrated and upset. I’m like, “That’s part of the process of learning that.” Now, he’s confident, not only in that. He’s in tackle football. When the same type of struggle comes, we have something to look back on and say, “Remember when you couldn’t tie your shoes and you did it?” Yet many times we want to have to fix it so they avoid pain, discomfort, or embarrassment.
Learn how to find people that can help them move through it. What she needed was professional help, not sitting down with a teacher. That’s the one I was telling you, picked up and moved to Minnesota. She’s in your country. I completely believe that you need to give your children the ability to be independent of you to learn independence. The coaching that you’re doing helps parents and dads understand not just how to connect with their kids and how to be that dad but also how to not be the fix-it person, too. That’s huge.
There’s also something too that some dad’s perspective, “I do love my kids and my family.” What’s your evidence? “I work hard for them. They have everything they need.” How do you look at your relationship with your father, then? If you start asking the why questions, it’s probably an unsatisfactory relationship. As a dad, my job is to provide. I go work hard. I do X, Y, and Z. We have everything we need.
Looking at all the outside stuff.
I don’t want you to be a provider. I want you to be present. I don’t care if I have a Nintendo Switch. I care that I have your eyes. I love what you said at the beginning about mindset because without the mindset, I have a great mentor, Jason Krause, who’s been a phenomenal coach and an amazing leader himself. He talks a lot about mindset because without that, months later, there’s no change. You’re just doing it because you have to, you’re supposed to, or need to. You don’t see the end result of, “That’s what I want. I put in the work to do that.”
It’s an engagement. Looking back, they want the Nintendo Switch but they would’ve also liked you to play with them at some point, not just give me the thing and walk away. “My dad’s giving me all this stuff. I have zero relationships with him.” When I look at my relationship with my father, he was more the authority. He was the authority. I didn’t cross the authority.
It wasn’t until I was an adult that we developed a relationship. It’s that generation of, “I’m the parent, you’re the child.” There’s no real relationship other than, “Do as I say and it all will be well with you.” You will live. My constant threat was to go to school with no teeth because I was a little smart mouth. “You shall live and you shall keep your teeth.”
That needs to evolve into not a friendship. We’re not talking about being your child’s best friend either because there are those who have that thought, “I’m my child’s friend. They call me by my first name.” That’s swinging the pendulum way too far. There is authority, but we also have to learn how to love our children. How do we love our children and be intentional?
I love the word intentional. It’s not winging it on the way home from work or it’s not like, “I should do something. One of the things that I and my wife incorporate is we have a calendar reminder that goes off every seventeen days. I wrote little notes to everyone. “Why I love you, just because.” What we try to do is not say, “I’m proud of you,” only after something good. “I’m proud of you that you got mad. I’m proud of you regardless.” Maybe it’s a little note. One day, “We went to go get Pokémon cards because I love you.”
It’s understanding where their worth comes from. It’s not anything in the what category, what they did or didn’t do. It’s all in the who category. “You are my son. You are my daughter.” What does that look like? That’s the 60,000-foot level, but being intentional. Maybe you can’t be present every day at the bus stop, but maybe you’re one day a week. I don’t know. When Jacob was first born, I was climbing a ladder doing the Navy thing. Rebecca was pregnant with Caleb. She had to go for an OB appointment. I was upset that I was going to be inconvenienced to be with my almost two-year-old son.
He had oatmeal that day. I had a special moment with my little guy that was unintentional. Ever since then, I advised my team, we called it Oatmeal. “Call the office one day and tell me you’re going to be an hour late.” The Navy will move on. Trust me. No order is to be lost because we all have this mentality that the organization can’t roll on without us. We started calling it Oatmeal. “When’s the last time you had Oatmeal?” It was that encouragement to be intentional, “Thursday morning, boss, I won’t be in because I’m having Oatmeal.”
Maybe it was going to their bus stop. Maybe it was being home with them watching cartoons. One last thing is that I know some dads that I coach with think, “I’ve got to take my kid to Disney World. I’ve got to take them to the Rainforest Cafe.” No, you don’t. I bet if you sat down and watched their favorite cartoon with them and said nothing, that right there might mean the world because you’re present, with no device, in your pajamas, whatever it is with your child watching their favorite cartoon or something.
There are two things that popped into my head. I had to write it down because there are two things that I want to ask you. I love that, by the way. It’s a way that leaders at work, whether you’re a CEO or you’re in the C-Suite, can bring a culture of the family into your organization that honors people who have families to be able to do that and say, “You’ve worked hard this week. Everybody, we’ve hit our goals. Take a little time in the morning to spend with your kids. Leave early, everyone, and go enjoy some family time.”
It doesn’t always have to be the Friday afternoon keg. Start helping people engage with their families more. Many people, especially after COVID, are working two jobs. They’re rushing from here to go there. Recognize who has families, who’s a single parent, single mom, or single dad that might need that extra little boost to spend some time with their kids. W
We see these tear-jerking videos when parents come home from deployment and they surprise their kids. They’re all excited and everything to see. Everybody’s crying. I love watching those videos. I get to cry. What happens the next day? Are they back off doing their own thing? They’ve surprised their kids, but are they continuing to nurture that relationship or they’re like, “Next deployment?” What is happening? You come home. You do this video. Do you have any feedback on that? Do you see that happening? Everybody’s excited to see them and then a week later, it’s like, “I need to go. When’s the next deployment? When’s the next thing?”
I retired a few years ago. It may be different, but there’s a lot that takes place. You come back with a deployment. Sometimes, if one individual deployed, they would get a six-month break. They would be there in Afghanistan and Iraq for a year. They’d come back for a vacation and get to go back. Being intentional to let that service member integrate back into that family so they have time off, half days, getting them back in and how they choose to use that, I don’t know.
Imagine your child is you and you receive a paycheck. You get paid every two weeks. Throughout the year, you’re paid pretty consistently. Your money ebbs and flows. Imagine if you’re paid once or twice a year, this huge big lump sum but you didn’t know how much or when and you didn’t know when the next one was going to come. I use that as the same thing with investing that love and that being present with your child. If you’re putting nickels and dimes every day and investing in that child, there’s some security in that money.
You’re earning interest on that. All money doesn’t expire at midnight and the next day you start at zero, but if you’re gone and then a one big moment that draws these cheers, that’s a huge deposit. To your point, you don’t go get sucked back right in again and then make a deposit months later. It’s those constant deposits that are consistent. That’s the key. When that service member does come back, yes, it’s a huge, they’ve been gone for months, if not a year sometimes. It’s being intentional of, “What’s my cadence? What’s my up-tempo going to be now?” It’s easy.
It could get restless at home easily.
When I was talking about being home with Jacob, I was all upset at what I was going to miss out on at work and what was going to happen to me and this, that, and the other. My little guy was right here and I wasn’t thinking about what he was going to get. I was thinking about what I was going to lose.
That’s huge right there. That’s why I wanted to bring that in. When you mentioned that you had to stay and have oatmeal with him and you were upset, that’s what that question brought into my mind for me. When they do come home, do they have this idea of, “I need to get back with my peeps?”
They certainly could. There are some mentalities that are go. There are some families that can do 8 or 9 deployments in 20 years and that family is good. That’s how they roll and they do things. It’s how that service member takes advantage of what’s put in front of them.
The other question I had was about COVID. We all went through this, stuck at home together. Moving forward, how do you think we could take advantage of the fact that we had to be together all that time? Many people were going stir crazy and everything, but you have to be around your kids and everything. As parents, how can we continue to have that but know that we can’t be physically together? If you are working from home, kids are back out to school now, but to recapture some of that, how can we intentionally recapture being together in a positive way?
Almost everyone got sick of each other because they were home so much. I don’t call it working from home. I call it living at work because the work is now at your desk. One thing that comes to mind is the commute that was lost. Think about it. You worked X number of hours, but there was drive time. What happened to that drive time? Did it get added to your day and you started earlier? It’s finding those edges and curves of the time that existed and going, “I wouldn’t be doing this. I have a lunch break. I’d be doing this.” What does that mean with your family?
It’s putting a schedule out. I know I miss a schedule. I miss routine and order and what is to be known. If you live at work or you work from home, whichever you want to call it, and you do have kids that stay home, which I did, my daughter was at home, we had time scheduled. Daddy’s working right now. When daddy’s done, then we did our thing. Getting deliberate and clear on what our schedule would be with that extra time especially.
That’s great advice. You’ve given sprinkle tips all throughout this interview. I believe that everything that you’re sharing not just builds confidence in someone at home but that will translate because we’re whole people. We bring our whole selves to work. If we can create more harmony, love, giving, and receiving at home where our cup is being filled, then when we go to work, we’re going to work as these whole and filled individuals as well.
We’re not coming to work mad, “I can’t believe what the kids did,” and all this stuff. Nothing’s perfect, of course. When you build intention into this, how you’re living your life, how you’re leaving work and, “How I am appearing at home? Who am I at home?” I always talk about curating who you are. Show up as the person you want people to experience because it’s inside of you. You need to show up for that at home, too. Not just drop everything and like, “I’m done for the day. Nobody talk to me. I’ve had a day.” You have to show up for them, too. Let’s build confidence in that. How can you be mindful and be present in showing up at home the way you show up at work for everybody else?
It’s like this chain, work, dad, spouse, softball player, author, whatever it is. If one of those links is rusted, you’re only going to be as strong as that weakest link. To your point, the holistic approach I love, the best way I would look at that is a brand. How are you showing up? If you don’t know how you want to show up and what you are, then how can anyone else surround you expect that?
Whether you like it or not, when you walk into McDonald’s, Seattle or Orlando, you know what you’re getting. What kind of dad do they get when Ric shows up? You’ve got to have a warmup. I learned this again from a great mentor. I’m going to walk in the door. I know I got 50 million things. That’s why that commute can be so good. Radio off. Let me get it out. I need to show up on the brand. I’m brand for dad as I’m bringing HELL, Humble, Energy, Love, and Levity. That’s what I want to bring as that dad.
I know that when I’m not on my brand, I’m a PIL. I’m Prideful, Impatient, and Lazy. Now that I know that, I got to warm up. I’m getting ready to come off my second job, the more important job, hopefully. I got to do that positive stuff. I know they’re going to say this. What am I going to say when Savannah asked for the fifth time if she can have candy? No, she can’t. I’ve got to do that. At the end of the day, I got to be clear on what my dad brand and my husband brand are. I got to show up on brand.
I love that because I talk about your personal brand all the time. Make sure that your brand is consistent at home, at work, and wherever is consistent. Back to The Alter Ego Effect again, is that he talked about having your tokens and rituals switch. Even if I’m taking off my CEO hat and I’m putting on my dad hat, what does that look like? I take off the suit. I take that time to undress from that brand, my CEO brand, and dress the dad brand. As you’re dressing the dad brand, you’re repeating to yourself, “What does the dad brand look like? What does it do? Who is this dad?” You bring the energy to it.
I would even go further that your brand can be the same across the board. It just shines a different perspective. I’m still HELL at work, with my kids, and with my wife. It just looks different. How I talk and present, that’s across the board. You mentioned the confidence part, too, which I love because we can go to work. If we’re killing at work, it’s the same stuff. What were you doing? What were you saying? What were you being at work? Do the same things. Do it on brand of what you’ve decided it’s important how you want to show up.
I love what you said because we lost it during COVID. There was no commute. There was no down. There wasn’t, “Give Daddy five minutes upstairs,” and physically change. I had a friend that was a Navy Corpsman. When he got home, he took a shower to wash that and then he was ready to go. That’s what he did as a warmup to get present and be on brand with his wife and kids.
You can create these little rituals to help you change state, as Tony Robbins calls it. You’re changing state. You’re going from one state to the next state, but you’re staying at the core of who you are. We’ve had many reschedules to do this and I’m glad it worked out. The reason I love this conversation so much is that we’re talking about doing things on purpose. Your coaching is all about being intentional and doing things on purpose. Understanding why you’re doing things. Stop just living through life by living through life.
You got eighteen summers with your kids. How are you taking the most advantage of that? Time seems to be accelerating. Eighteen seems like five. I appreciate us finally getting the time to do that and you agreeing to do this interview. If there’s anything else you want to share in the last couple of minutes that we have, the floor is yours.
Thank you. The last thing I would say is that I heard a quote. I may slaughter or change a little bit differently, “If you want to go where you’ve never been, you have to do what you’ve never done.” If you’re tired and whining and the victim and woe is me, that’s great. Have your pity party with these two rules. Don’t invite anyone and end it at midnight.
Get a coach, get an accountability partner, and get an Audible book. I’m going through David Goggins right now. Find something that changes your trajectory because right now, it’s 1%, but in ten years, it’s a completely different story because it’s not just about you. For the dads out there, the sky’s the limit for the change that you want. Get clear, get out there, and get on purpose.
This has been a different interview. I’m always interviewing people about business, elevating in business, and what you can do next. Having the opportunity to look at this leadership and confidence through the lens of fatherhood has been an honor and a privilege. I thank you. I don’t ever want to forget and leave out because confidence starts at home. It does with your children. When you build that with your kids, it allows them to grow up to be confident individuals. I was so into this that I almost forgot I have Rapid-fire questions for you. Let’s do the Rapid-fire. This is a little fun. What’s the biggest leadership mistake that you ever made or were a victim of?
I made the assumption with a sailor that I understood the evaluation process and it had a huge impact on his career negatively because I confused knowing a lot with knowing everything.
That’s big. What’s the best leadership advice you’ve ever gotten and that you still implement now?
I go back to that gentleman, that mentor that said, “Make sure that front is row filled.” Make sure at the end of the day, you work hard, but that if the family’s there, family before work.
If you were a castaway on a deserted island, what are three things that you hope would wash up on shore or be airdropped to you? It cannot be a phone.
My wife and DirecTV to watch Minnesota Vikings and a battery source.
This is a tricky one. This always gets people. If you were a song or song title, what would it be and why?
It’s My Year by Aaron Cole. He’s a Christian rap artist because he talks about this is my year and every year is my year. It’s my best year yet.
Finally, you mentioned what you’re reading now. What are you reading now? You can give me your top favorite three favorite titles.
I’m listening to David Goggins, Can’t Hurt Me, which is a great story. I’m reading The Dad in the Mirror at night. Next in line is She Calls Me Daddy. I would say those. Listen or read those three or something.
Thank you for those. I appreciate it. Thank you for making the time to have this conversation with me. I loved it.
You are welcome. I was not going to miss this for the world. We’ve bounced back and forth. I could do this for hours. It seems so natural and fun. Thank you for getting the word out, and for dads. Dads are important.
I thank you for the work that you’re doing. For those of you out there that are leaders, it’s important for us to build self-awareness to learn how to lead ourselves so that we can lead our teams, including our families, so we can lead ourselves, our teams, and our organizations with audacious confidence. Thank you so much for joining us. Check out Ric. You can go and check him out on LinkedIn. Their website is PurposeCoachingLLC.com. Thank you, everyone.
- The Alter Ego Effect
- Can’t Hurt Me
- The Dad in the Mirror
- She Calls Me Daddy
- LinkedIn – Ric Hellmann
About Ric Hellmann
Founder of Purpose Coaching, Ric is a passionate leadership coach focused on transforming leaders with purpose. His approach will breathe life into those struggling to find intentional purpose, fulfillment, and engagement. Supported by his 24 years in the United States Navy, his vast experiences have equipped him with a plethora of practical solutions to leadership’s toughest quandaries. Ric holds the Certified Professional Co-Active Coach, from the Co-Active Training Institute and is certified from the International Coaching Federation as an Associated Certified Coach. www.purposecoachingllc.com
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